When you meet someone who’s absolutely certain that vaccines are safe and effective, it’s really easy to notice that a) the vast majority have NO books on vaccines in their homes b) they’ve conducted ZERO research on the vaccine issue other than talking to friends (who also don’t own any books on vaccines) or they’ve talked to their doctor, who gets paid to administer vaccines c) they most often work inside a government institution that demands reflexively obedience and a blind compliance to science/government dictates in order to secure raises, promotions and good social standing or d) all of the above.
Is a rational and logical person really to believe that most vaccine decisions are made with the child’s best interest in mind? The answer is unfortunate and one that few want to look in the eye. When people are vaccinating today they’re doing it because of how the vaccine decision affects them as an adult, inside a society that punishes anyone who speaks or behaves in contradiction to the herd. Any decision to vaccinate is 100% about the parent and not the health of the child. Can such a sweeping and blanket statement be validated? How do we know this as a 100% certainty and absolute fact? How do we know that people who vaccinate aren’t vaccinating based on the research? The answer is simple.
We know concretely that every single person who vaccinates has to be making that decision based on something other than the research because…………the research that vaccines do what’s advertised DOESN’T EXIST. This medical doctor below explains this simple fact, in clear and precise terms, using cited sources and published statistics. There’s NO research to prove vaccines do anything close to what we’re told they do so we automatically know that no parent anywhere is administering their child vaccinations based on the research. Most people are not interested in the research in the first place because their decisions to vaccinate are about how the decision will affect them personally inside a culture that attacks dissenters and free thinkers. Most are sacrificing their own children to protect themselves from the tyrannical society in which we live. Our freedom is an illusion, as invisible pressure points guide our every day decisions, as we attempt to comply our way to the least adversarial day possible. A toxic needle in a child’s arm gives the parent a free pass from our punishing slave masters, who demand reflexive obedience to their tyrannical rule and their poison agenda. Think about that for a second, in regards to just how tyrannical our own society is. Also know that we’re now exporting this type of tyranny and ignorance as freedom, all around the world. Our society is so “war like”, it’s now at war with its’ own citizens and its’ children. May the children forgive us for being such cowards as to not protect them, in order that we receive a shallow and short lived benefit for complying to their poisoning.
Yes. Yes there is boatloads of evidence to support the safety and efficacy of vaccines. PERIOD. lol. I hope you sell lots of books to your gullible cult followers.
Would you care to share any of this evidence to help us out in our quest for knowledge? Show us the research that made vaccinating yourself or your child a slam dunk for you? Please enlighten us.
Would this be the same Tyler Smith who’s been stalking me for over 1 year now. Thanks for the interest Tyler but I’m happily married.
Absolutely I’m the same Tyler Smith. I’m glad you noticed. So I guess you would consider anyone who reads your public posts and articles a stalker lol. Oh the Christoff ego is certainly legendary. And yes vaccines absolutely work. The evidence is absolutely overwhelming and it takes a completely delusional person to think otherwise. Literally every piece of contradictory evidence you post is complete garbage.
https://medium.com/@visualvaccines/graphic-proof-that-vaccines-work-with-sources-61c199429c8c#.6a5s5yo9m
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/vaccines-work-period/
Just because you claim there is no evidence does not make it so. Just because you have zero understanding of any real science does not make it ok to spread misinformation that puts lives at risk.
Your arrogance and ego seriously disgust me. I’m sure you will probably be laughing while reading this because your delusional mind actually thinks that you know the secret. You have the special knowledge. It’s like you think Big Microscope has been pulling the wool over the eyes of millions of undergraduate students for decades.
Maybe I’m just a paid shill who is part of the chemtrail, fluoride, vaccine, GMO, false flag illuminati mind control eugenics agenda. Who knows really. My only regret is forcing you to disable comments on your FB page. The silver lining is that you probably won’t collect followers as quickly without an open posting policy.
So Tyler please explain to me how you believe vaccines decreased disease in larger populations when vaccines aren’t proven to decrease disease in single individuals. Your graphs in the first link show disease is going down but there’s no correlation to vaccination, it’s an assumption and it’s a big assumption because no vaccine trials on individuals have ever confirmed if the vaccine makes them less prone to disease. The stock market went up after vaccination as well but there’s no direct correlation.
Diseases decreased and they dropped long before vaccines were implemented (as your own graphs show) so we know it’s not the vaccines doing the health improvement and how could they, really……..when they’re not proven to do that in single individuals. Find me one study where a group of vaccinated people were followed around for any amount of time in the real world and that they had less disease compared to a non vaccinated group? Find me one study, just one where disease incidence was measured after vaccination and not antibody response. We’ll be waiting………
Dude, maybe the stock market went up after vaccination because people were living long enough to get a job and spend money resulting in an increased economy. Have you ever seen a kid with a vaccine preventable illness, like a patient? It is horrible and almost nearly preventable. I am with Tyler on this. Your level of fear about government mind control, etc is seriously disturbing. Also, there are no such thing as chemtrails. Cheers Paul
Paul – let me escort you into the land of adulthood. Provide me one study, just one, which solidified your belief in vaccines. Please be our guest. Let me tell you something Paul. You won’t be able to find one that proves vaccines do what’s advertised but you will forward one anyway and I will tear it apart, not for you, but for everyone else who is watching me answer this question. After that, the fact that you won’t be able to find a study that proves vaccines improve immunity, I will come back and comment on the mind control of someone like yourself, who thinks you know concretely what’s happening but have no proof to back your claims. When you’re injecting known toxins into children, the burden of proof regarding safety and effectiveness is on the people who believe poison is healthy. One study. The floor is yours. You talk about vaccine preventable disease. Prove to me vaccines prevent disease. One study and I will show you that you’re barking at the moon, for everyone to see here.
From my perspective you are the one who is being mind controlled. You attach yourself to anything that is counterculture or alternative without a hint of critical thinking. You are the very definition of a brainwashed individual. You blindly accept these alternative things as truth with 100% devotion. As someone who has read many books from both sides of many of these debates I can say that if you think you are 100% correct, you are most likely wrong about many things. The more knowledge you gain, the more you understand how much you don’t know or how the answers lie in some grey area.
Look up the definition of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. You are the very definition. A person with only a skin deep understanding of the underlying science, claiming to “know the truth”, counter to the entire scientific community. Anyone who talks about toxins and poisons out of context is completely uneducated on the topic or they are deliberately trying to push their own alt med agenda. Literally everything can be classified a toxin according to your definition. Water is toxic in high doses. Magnesium is deadly at high doses. It is also deadly if the human body is low in magnesium. This is the perfect example of the dose making the poison. Literally everything can be a poison in large enough quantities. Here is a little info for anyone interested in the scary vaccine TOXINZ! All articles and blog posts well cited because I know you like to dig down to the truth and not just take a headline as fact.
Let’s start with the easy ones and go from there…
Formaldehyde: Harmless in the concentrations present in vaccines. A typical vaccine contains about 50mcg. At any given time a baby can have as much as 575-862mcg of formaldehyde in their blood from DNA demethylation. A pear contains 360mcg. The fact is we produce more formaldehyde naturally than we can ever get from vaccines.
http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/…/demystifying-vaccine…
Aborted Fetal Tissue: This is technically actually true, but it is not as sinister as you would be led to believe.
“Specifically, the WI-38 cell line is a human diploid fibroblast cell line derived from a three month old fetus aborted therapeutically in 1962 in the US. Another cell line, MRC-5, was derived from lung fibroblasts of a 14 week old fetus in 1966 in the United Kingdom.”
So tissue from TWO aborted fetuses in the 1960’s are used. The tissue used today is created in a test tube and is far removed from the actual fetuses. The fetuses were not aborted by choice, but for health of the mother and all necessary permissions were granted. So yes, you can say aborted fetal tissue is used in vaccines, but it doesn’t mean anything. Even the Vatican condones this practice.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/aborted-fetal…/
Egg embryo: Who cares if an egg embryo (otherwise known as an egg) was used in the manufacture of vaccines. This should only matter if you are allergic to eggs. In that case you are already exempt from these particular vaccines.
Peanut oil: There is NO peanut oil in vaccines. This lie is based on a 50 year old study that looked at peanut oil as a possible adjuvant in vaccines. The risk of allergic reaction was deemed to be too high and peanut oil was abandoned. You can scroll through the overt anti-anti-vax ranting for some factual information with links at the bottom of this post. You can also use any number of other reputable sources to debunk this lie.
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/…/antivaccine-lies…/
Gelatin: Gelatin in itself is not harmful. Just like most things people can be allergic to gelatin. This does not make it inherently toxic. This is a case where we can probably do a better job of understanding the patients allergies before administering vaccines in order to prevent or limit adverse reactions. The same can be said about some other ingredients, but this is not limited to vaccines. The same could be said about literally anything we put in our bodies.
MSG: MSG is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, a non-essential amino acid. Ionic glutamate is responsible for umami flavor in our food. It is in meats, fish, spinach, tomatoes, cheese, soy sauce and so on. IT is also added to processed foods for flavor.Currently a daily dose of up to 6000mg/kg is considered safe. In vaccines, MSG is used as a stabilizer protecting the vaccine from breakdown due to heat and light. Here are some of the doses and the relative dose of everyday items: 1/2 cup of peas contains 48 times the glutamate in Varivax and 127 times the amount in FluMist. One cup of breast milk contains 352 times the amount found in Varivax and 936 times the amount in FluMist. I only mention these two because MSG is not used in many vaccines.
http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/…/demystifying-vaccine…
Aluminum: Aluminum is used as an adjuvant in vaccines. The dose makes the poison here. In mice it takes at least 200mg/kg/day over weeks to cause death. That is equivalent to a 3.2kg infant ingesting 640mg/day over several weeks. The current limit set by the FDA is .85mg/vaccine. A person could quite safely inject a lifetimes worth of aluminum from vaccines in one shot with zero negative health effects. That is how small the dose is here. Obviously just like other ingredients a patient can experience an allergic reaction. This was addressed in the gelatin section.
http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/…/demystifying-vaccine…
Mercury: Here’s the big one! The evil mercury. First of all… mercury, or thimerosal in this case, is only used in the multi dose flu vaccine vial as a preservative. I’m not even going to post any links here. The myth of mercury poisoning from vaccines has been so thoroughly debunked that it would only take a simple search to get all the info you need. If you are still clinging to this lie then you are simply ignoring the facts.
Here is a well written piece about the myths surround injection vs ingestion in case you want to bring that up as a rebuttal.
https://vaxplanations.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/239/
Harpocrates Speaks: Demystifying Vaccine Ingredients -…
harpocratesspeaks.com
Tyler give me one study ONE STUDY to look at, which you believe was conducted under true scientific protocol and involved true unvaccinated control groups. Just one. Put one on the table, not a cluster. Not someone’s word that it was done. Give me one study, one link, so I can do what I do. Just one link with a couple lines of comment so we can get moving here.
Of course it is very difficult to have a debate with someone who doesn’t believe in germ theory or the practice of measuring antibody response in the detection of pathogens. Forget the fact that this has been tested and proven over and over again. We (humans) can isolate microorganisms from sick individuals. We can grow the pathogens or microorganisms in a pure culture. We can then introduce the pathogen to a healthy host and cause the disease. This can be done over and over again using the same pathogen. We can infect 50% of lab rats and that 50% will get the disease while the other 50% will not. This can be replicated over and over again with an almost 100% success rate. This is what makes this a theory in the science sense of the word. The same thing is done to test the efficacy of vaccines. And yes we can detect the actual microorganism in some cases, not just the antibodies.
I’m sure you are aware that every currently approved vaccine has has gone through three phases of trials to determine the safety and efficacy.
“Pre-marketing (pre-licensure) vaccine clinical trials are typically done in three phases, as is the case for any drug or biologic. Initial human studies, referred to as Phase 1, are safety and immunogenicity studies performed in a small number of closely monitored subjects. Phase 2 studies are dose-ranging studies and may enroll hundreds of subjects. Finally, Phase 3 trials typically enroll thousands of individuals and provide the critical documentation of effectiveness and important additional safety data required for licensing. At any stage of the clinical or animal studies, if data raise significant concerns about either safety or effectiveness, FDA may request additional information or studies, or may halt ongoing clinical studies.” So ANY vaccine will have to be proven safe and effective in order to gain approval.
http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/developmentapprovalprocess/biologicslicenseapplicationsblaprocess/ucm133096.htm
A simple search on PubMed of “double blind placebo controlled vaccine study” yields 1129 results. Of course this is not a comprehensive list of all vaccine studies using double blind placebo control protocols. Here is a document published by the WHO regarding the use of placebos in vaccine trials:
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/94056/1/9789241506250_eng.pdf
Several studies on the efficacy of the rotavirus vaccine and the HPV vaccine exist. You can also find many studies on the efficacy of various malaria vaccines in trials. The efficacy of the chicken pox vaccine is a perfect example. How do you explain the drop in incidence rate of chicken pox? Of course the efficacy rate of these vaccines is not as good as the measles vaccine.
In response to your comment about the graphs in my previous post… Yes you are right about correlation not equaling causation. In this case you are wrong. When a significant drop in incidence occurs such as the drop in measles incidence after 1963, we can isolate the cause in the absence of any other possibly significant factors. The only explanation in this case is the introduction of the measles vaccine. It is completely obvious to any critical thinker with an open mind that no other factor could account for such a significant drop in such a short period of time. I will not address your comment about the disease being on the decline before the introduction of the vaccine because that is simply not true. Of course we did get better at treating the symptoms and complications from the disease before the vaccine and that is obviously why the MORTALITY rate decreased before the vaccine. Of course less people died of pneumonia due to the measles after the introduction of antibiotics. Of course we made great strides in medical science in the first half of the 20th century that saved many lives. This, unfortunately, DID NOT reduce the incidence rate of measles in the general population. People still died, but just at a much lower rate. People still die today, it’s just that the incidence rate is so low that we don’t notice or aren’t affected by this… thanks to vaccines. I’m still amazed that you continue to deny the difference between mortality and incidence rate. It’s very confusing to me why you deny such a simple concept.
I’m not really sure how much proof you need considering the majority of measles cases are in unvaccinated individuals. You like to look at absolute values though and sometimes cite case studies that actually show the opposite of what you are trying to support. You will show a study where 500 vaccinated people get measles and 100 unvaccinated get measles and say this is proof that vaccines don’t work. You completely gloss over the fact that the 500 represents less than 5% and the 100 represents almost 100%. Whatever confirms you bias though right?
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6115a1.htm
Yes outbreaks can occur in 99% vaccinated populations. This is where your thinking and logic take a wrong turn. When you say that if there is one exception to a rule then the entire theory is proven wrong. First of all real critical thinkers don’t use worst like absolute, never, always or proven. There is only evidence that supports the best answer at the time.
I know you will say something about me not being living an adult life or about how I’m repeating the same lies or about how many books you own or some other irrelevant line to justify your unsupported stance. What you don’t know is that I’ve been down the conspiracy road. Two decades ago I came across Daniel Quinn and I read Manufacturing Consent. I’ve read dozens of books on the media and monetary system. When my son was born I did a ridiculous amount of research on vaccines (anti-vaccine books as well as factual CDC and WHO information) because I was scared and wanted to educate myself before injecting “poisons” into my baby. I’ve gone down the rabbit hole of health and nutrition pseudoscience. I’ve read Grain Brain and Wheat Belly and a dozen other alt health books. I’ve read Denise Minger’s book on the food pyramid and “Salt Sugar Fat”. I’ve been exposed to Michael Tsarion and David Icke. I’ve been a vegan and I’ve also bought into the whole juicing fad in the past. I’ve been down that road. I’ve never even smoked one cigarette or taken one sip of coffee. I’ve also challenged these beliefs and come to my own conclusions based on mountains of information from both sides. I would be surprised if you could say the same. You may have a large collection of books, but that is useless if they all confirm the same bias. If I believe that vaccines are not safe, it does me no good to read a book telling me vaccines are not safe. The first thing I do in that situation is read a book trying to prove the opposite. That’s called critical thinking and I’m afraid you are woefully lacking in this department. So contrary to your uninformed opinion about me, I am not a “sheep” who is just repeating the lies of our handlers. I’ve learned to dig deeper into the source of information and wild claims. When I read an article on Natural News I immediately dig down to the sources to get the real story. I take nothing at face value and shocking clickbait blog titles do nothing to persuade me.
The funny thing about this whole thing is that I actually agree with on many topics. I think we (humans) are too quick to implement risky medical procedures. We obviously over prescribe many powerful and dangerous medications. We are too quick to treat symptoms instead of root causes. I too believe that many ailments we see today can be treated or prevented with proper diet, nutrition and lifestyle. I also hold many of the same beliefs regarding money and materialism in our society. I am fully aware of the media manipulation and the way the government and corporations custom tailor the media (news, TV, Movies) in order to create a predetermined narrative. I don’t even own a TV by the way. I have self sabotaged in the past to deal with pain. I’ve dealt with that pain and have lived a sober life. I’ve been to the darkest depths of depression and have come back from the brink.
My issue is that these things are rarely black and white. The answers are rarely on either extreme. Vaccines work. Adverse events also happen, however rare, and they are obviously not 100% percent effective. Medical interventions save lives. Modern cancer treatments save lives. Some people die and live terrible lives due to modern cancer treatments. Many surgeries save lives. Many surgeries are unnecessary. School is very useful in cases where people are learning specific life skills. We need nurses and engineers and accountants. We don’t need any more history or English literature graduates. In those cases University is a complete waste of time and money. Unfortunately everyone can’t open a business. Logistically, how would that work? Yes paper money is just paper. It is also a contract with society. It’s a promise. It has value because we give it value. Do you think people would be willing to barter with you for a luxury vacation? Do you think people would manufacture your gym equipment as a favour? Who will build the roads that lead to your gym? Who will design the structure that houses your gym? How about designing the gym equipment itself? It’s very easy to say money isn’t real, but the fact is that it’s real because we say it’s real and you benefit from this system more than most.
I think the main issue here can be summed up in one case. A perfect example of your thinking is when you posted a video of a magnet spinning and claimed that this technology has been hidden from us and that the true mechanics can be found in “this book” you read by a thoroughly debunked alt physicist. Magnetic tech has not been hidden. We use it to generate electricity. We use magnets in modern maglev trains and money other applications. The video you showed is easily explained using Newton’s Laws and is easily tested and verified with 100% accuracy. There is no magic and no That is why they are called laws. There is no magic and no secret. Literally every undergrad engineer learns this and tests it in the real world. The results can be predicted with 100% accuracy. There is zero debate on Newton’s Laws, but you would choose to believe one book you read that goes against the 100% scientific consensus on Newton’s Laws and claim literally every person familiar with Newton’s Laws are brainwashed zombie sheeple blindly repeating the lies of our handlers. Here is the video if any of your readers want to check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu1jEWLZVug
The magnet is not generating anything. It continues to spin due to the initial force imparted and the lack of friction. Period. Doesn’t go any deeper than that. This is just a perfect example of your flawed thinking regarding “research” and your amazing ability to find any and all information that confirms your bias without even a hint of challenge.
I know this went on a bit of tangent, but I don’t think this debate is about vaccines. This debate is about critical thinking and the lack thereof. You want to escort people “into the land of adulthood”. Maybe you should first take that journey yourself. Mine started 20 years ago… Not after I turned 40.
Tyler give me one study ONE STUDY to look at, which you believe was conducted under true scientific protocol and involved true unvaccinated control groups. Just one. Put one on the table, not a cluster. Not someone’s word that it was done. Give me one study, one link, so I can do what I do.
Tyler has laid out a pretty complete response that is pretty respectable. I am probably not seeing correctly in you view thought Jason.
What I do know is that if the 3 of us were in an airplane flying at 25,000 feet (if we can all agree that a plane actually does indeed fly) and there was nothing but the 3 of us, 2 pilots and 10 parachutes and the plane engines stopped and were unable to be restarted, I would recommend that we all put on parachutes. However, the scientific data on whether or not parachutes actually do anything to prevent death and major trauma related to gravitational challenge is lacking.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14684649
Then again, the parachute is there for the taking. We can recommend that putting one on (that works properly) is a good idea. But the data and randomized placebo controlled trials are sadly lacking.
Peace Paul
Paul poisoning children isn’t a hypothetical parachute sort of scenario……and Tyler needs to still provide only one research study which be believes 1) proves vaccinated people were followed into the real world and proven more immune compared to a fully non vaccinated control group. That’s it. Everyone is free to do the same. I’ve addressed Sigh’s of course but he doesn’t seem to read the responses. He’s been voted off the Island for future responses. Tyler has not.
Jason I’m not sure what you are asking for here. I provided several placebo controlled studies with unvaccinated control groups in my previous post,
Are you talking about a study showing the health and disease rates of vaccianted vs unvaccinated people? Of course a randomized placebo controlled trial could never occur using currently approved vaccines because these have already been proven effective in Phase 3 trials and therefore this type of study would be unethical as Paul illustrated using his parachute analogy. There are, however, several epidemiological studies that compare the health and disease rates of vaccinated vs unvaccinated people using very large cross sectional population data sets.
Here are a couple of studies of vaccinated vs unvaccinated:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3057555/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2260220
This one on the influenza vaccine reaches a bit, but still interesting information:
http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1164/rccm.201401-0066LE#.V0c2UJPSL0G
Some studies on the safety of vaccines in pregnant women:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23635613
Here are some studies on neonatal outcomes after vaccination during pregnancy:
http://www.cmaj.ca/content/early/2014/01/06/cmaj.130499
http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f393.long
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/03/10/cid.ciw082.abstract
Here is an interesting take on vax vs unvax studies:
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-perils-and-pitfalls-of-doing-a-vaccinated-versus-unvaccinated-study/
Here is a great link to lots of resources:
http://www.immunize.org/journalarticles/conc_multi.asp
For some reason the anti vaccine community likes to trot out these “outbreaks in fully vaccinated populations” case studies as proof that vaccines don’t work. Unfortunately they often prove the opposite. Here are some:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3821823”
Here is a decent explanation of the previous link:
http://www.mycolleaguesareidiots.com/archive/2010/06/29/497.aspx
You are guilty of posting these very case studies to support your argument against vaccines. You will focus on the fact that say “half of infected individuals were fully vaccinated” or some other out of context line from the abstract. Here is the way it should be taken… I will use this case as an example:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1884314
From this case study we can extract the following information:
8931 students in the study population (89 unvaccinated… 99% coverage)
563 confirmed cases of measles (87 unvaccinated… 84.5% coverage among infected)
475 out of 88841 vaccinated students contracted measles (~95% efficacy rate)
87 out of 89 unvaccinated students contracted measles (almost 100% infection rate)
So yes, outbreaks can occur in fully vaccinated population. I would ask you what group you would rather be in in this case. I will take the 5% chance of infection over the almost 100% chance. You have used this exact case as “proof” that vaccines don’t work when it actually proves the exact opposite. How do you explain this?
So as I stated in the first paragraph, I posted several placebo controlled vaccine studies and of course every single currently approved vaccine has been rigorously tested and has passed Phase 3 trial using thousands of subjects to determine the efficacy of the vaccine.
The only way that you can deny the efficacy of vaccines is if you deny germ theory itself. Germ theory forms the basis for lots of modern medical science and is universally accepted among the credible science community. It has been easily tested and proven over and over again. That is not to say that your health and diet can’t play a role in fighting disease, but to deny the fact that microorganisms and pathogens cause disease is silly. And just because you get sick when you drink bleach is not proof that germ theory isn’t real. It just means that you’ve poisoned yourself or caused internal damage from the ingested caustic substance. The topic is way more complicated than the simplistic bleach example you presented and there are many ways for the human body to get sick or damaged. Unfortunately many things in this world are counter intuitive and can not be explained by simplistic logical explanations. This is why we have the scientific method. A way for us to test our hypothesis and better our understanding of the physical world.
I will leave you with this…
How do you explain the drop in disease incidence rate immediately following the introduction of every single vaccine every approved for use? These vaccines were introduced at different times and we see the same significant drop for every one. It therefore can’t be because of clean water or better nutrition. I am genuinely curious how you explain this main point away.
Cheers!
OK perfect. So I stopped at the first study. This one. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3057555/ So what exactly do you think is the goal of the study here. Vaccinated vs unvaccinaed comparison, with what as the goal?
Paul,
While I agree that this analogy works for placebo controlled trials on currently approved vaccines, this isn’t the main issue here with Jason. In order for your analogy to hold true you must first assume that vaccines prevent disease and by giving people a placebo you are putting them at risk. This kind of analogy is useless when debating someone who doesn’t believe in germ theory to begin with.
I would put it this way… We can do a randomized placebo controlled long term study on currently approved vaccines if enough unvaccinated anti-vaxxers volunteer to be injected with an unknown substance, either a vaccine or a placebo. The problem is that they place such a high risk on receiving vaccines that they would never volunteer and they would in fact consider this trial to be unethical. This is the same reason why we don’t perform these placebo controlled trials on the general population. We consider the risk of not getting the vaccine to be too great and therefore the trial would be unethical.
That being said… This is only applies to currently approved vaccines that have been proven to be effective in multi-phase trials. Once again, EVERY SINGLE APPROVED VACCINE has gone through extensive phase three trials using thousands of subjects to determine the efficacy. There are thousands of studies of this nature available and I posted a few in my previous post above.
Put up one of those studies, just to make it easier for me. If germ theory was correct, no one would be here to conduct this debate.
“I would put it this way… We can do a randomized placebo controlled long term study on currently approved vaccines if enough unvaccinated anti-vaxxers volunteer to be injected with an unknown substance, either a vaccine or a placebo.”
I fail to see why it has to be a ‘randomized’ placebo controlled long term study. We’re talking about studies to test the safety and efficacy of vaccines. It would already be a great improvement to compare vaxxed versus unvaxxed individuals simply to find out the degree of ‘side effects’ caused by vaccines. I’m sure the pro-vaccine group wouldn’t mind to be injected with the full vaccine(s) and neither would the anti-vaccine group be bothered by the fact they’d only get injected with saline fluid…